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	<title>Comments on: Ock-en-gay who?</title>
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	<link>http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/ock-en-gay-who/</link>
	<description>Reconnecting today's believer with the ancient faith</description>
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		<title>By: Jacques</title>
		<link>http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/ock-en-gay-who/comment-page-1/#comment-7585</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very interesting and challenging.   Possiblty a great deal of correct thinking.   Could lead to some major changes. 

Barna&#039;s observation is quite insightful---unless, of course, you&#039;re the frog.

The changes that have occurred have not necessarily promoted the &quot;Glory to Christ&quot; that should be the goal of all of us.  Tragically, I&#039;m afraid that in many instnces &quot;the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.  There were a lot of us who went through most all of the same program as yourself without the disconnect that you recall.  We recall Harold and Oswald Chambers, Jim Elliott, Nate Saint, and many others not of our own Denominational setup.  That being said, there was a major pre-occupation with &quot;self-contained worlds&quot; that failed to notice the &quot;water was getting warm.

Interesting thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting and challenging.   Possiblty a great deal of correct thinking.   Could lead to some major changes. </p>
<p>Barna&#8217;s observation is quite insightful&#8212;unless, of course, you&#8217;re the frog.</p>
<p>The changes that have occurred have not necessarily promoted the &#8220;Glory to Christ&#8221; that should be the goal of all of us.  Tragically, I&#8217;m afraid that in many instnces &#8220;the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.  There were a lot of us who went through most all of the same program as yourself without the disconnect that you recall.  We recall Harold and Oswald Chambers, Jim Elliott, Nate Saint, and many others not of our own Denominational setup.  That being said, there was a major pre-occupation with &#8220;self-contained worlds&#8221; that failed to notice the &#8220;water was getting warm.</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: dean</title>
		<link>http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/ock-en-gay-who/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i agree with jim.  not to have a one track mind here lately, but back in the early 90&#039;s while in seminary, we had to read the george barna book &quot;frog in the kettle&quot;.  the book plays off the premise of the church being akin to a frog in a kettle full of water.  if you were to throw a frog into a kettle of very hot water, it would jump out becaue of the extreme difference in ambient temperature.  however, if you threw a frog into a kettle of room temperature water and slowly turned up the heat, the frog would not notice the change in water temp, and he would meet his demise in the boiling hot water.  it is this type of failure to recognize change the that is slowky taking place in society taht keeps the church from beng effective in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree with jim.  not to have a one track mind here lately, but back in the early 90&#8217;s while in seminary, we had to read the george barna book &#8220;frog in the kettle&#8221;.  the book plays off the premise of the church being akin to a frog in a kettle full of water.  if you were to throw a frog into a kettle of very hot water, it would jump out becaue of the extreme difference in ambient temperature.  however, if you threw a frog into a kettle of room temperature water and slowly turned up the heat, the frog would not notice the change in water temp, and he would meet his demise in the boiling hot water.  it is this type of failure to recognize change the that is slowky taking place in society taht keeps the church from beng effective in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/ock-en-gay-who/comment-page-1/#comment-402</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/?p=19#comment-402</guid>
		<description>Oh, yeah...great post!  I&#039;ve been waiting on this one!  It seems that everywhere my family and I have been called to serve, it has always been overwhelmingly proven to us that we are anywhere from 5 to 10 years ahead of the &#039;church&#039; process at that given time.  We&#039;ve struggled and struggled with this.  I guess that&#039;s one of the many reasons that I&#039;m glad we&#039;re in a &#039;reality&#039; ministry.  One that&#039;s currently rooted in the &#039;now&#039;, racing toward the future.  Thanks for this post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yeah&#8230;great post!  I&#8217;ve been waiting on this one!  It seems that everywhere my family and I have been called to serve, it has always been overwhelmingly proven to us that we are anywhere from 5 to 10 years ahead of the &#8216;church&#8217; process at that given time.  We&#8217;ve struggled and struggled with this.  I guess that&#8217;s one of the many reasons that I&#8217;m glad we&#8217;re in a &#8216;reality&#8217; ministry.  One that&#8217;s currently rooted in the &#8216;now&#8217;, racing toward the future.  Thanks for this post!</p>
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		<title>By: Notes from the Trail &#187; Harold Ockenga&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/ock-en-gay-who/comment-page-1/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>Notes from the Trail &#187; Harold Ockenga&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobledesign.us/ip/?p=19#comment-400</guid>
		<description>[...] There&#8217;s a new post over at Ignorant Protestant by yours truly related to evangelicals, isolationism, and Harold Ockenga.  Bookmark to: Filed under: Snippets by Jeff @ 12:15 pm &#124; • There have been 1 followers of this trail besides you to date. &#124; Top &#160;&#160;  Possibly Related: •No related posts&amp;emsp [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There&#8217;s a new post over at Ignorant Protestant by yours truly related to evangelicals, isolationism, and Harold Ockenga.  Bookmark to: Filed under: Snippets by Jeff @ 12:15 pm | • There have been 1 followers of this trail besides you to date. | Top &nbsp;&nbsp;  Possibly Related: •No related posts&#38;emsp [...]</p>
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